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Disclaimer 01:12
The PEMF Podcast does not contain any medical advice, and the content provided is for informational purposes only. If you have any health concerns, please visit a healthcare professional.
Andy Smith 01:27
Welcome to the PEMF Podcast, and today we're gonna be talking about sleep. Anything from struggling to get to sleep, or if you wake up at 2:00 AM, for example, or maybe you wake up in the morning and you just feel like you haven't had a proper rest.
Joshua Roberts 01:39
Yeah, and sleep is one of the many reasons why people start looking at PEMF, so we're gonna look at if whether PEMF can actually affect sleep, what the research says, and whether it can even affect insomnia.
Andy Smith 01:49
We'll start by discussing what actually helps the body to get back to sleep, but also look through some of the studies related with PEMF therapy and sleep, and then we'll look at some practical applications to integrate into your own routine to help with sleep.
Joshua Roberts 02:04
Yeah, for sure. And before we get into this episode, if you haven't already, do make sure to subscribe, follow us on any audio platform, and give us a five-star review. It just helps us make more and more of these episodes. And if you haven't already, sign up to our weekly newsletter on thepemfpodcast.com. Uh, we send a weekly newsletter all about the latest updates in PEMF, latest updates with the podcast, new episodes, kind of everything in between. And if you haven't checked out the website as well, we've got loads of useful information on there just regarding PEMF as a whole. But going back to the episode, just to start out, can PEMF actually affect sleep?
Andy Smith 02:35
Yes. There are loads of human studies that suggest that particular pulsed electromagnetic field systems can improve sleep-related symptoms, including in people with insomnia. Uh, that includes difficulty falling asleep, disrupted sleep, and how people feel during the day. Sleep depends on several systems working together, so there may be more than one route in which PEMF could influence it. So we'll look at all of those in this episode.
Joshua Roberts 03:00
Absolutely. And if this is someone's first time listening to the podcast or maybe the first time that they've ever heard about PEMF, what... Can you just explain what it is in 30 seconds?
Andy Smith 03:09
Yeah. So anyone just joining us now or just discovered the PEMF Podcast, PEMF therapy stands for pulsed electromagnetic field therapy. It's a non-invasive, drug-free, and natural treatment that induces pulsed electromagnetic fields into the body, and it's been studied for its effects on biological activity, including everything from bone healing to sleep. But ultimately, we're trying to create the optimal environment in the body to heal and create balance.
Joshua Roberts 03:37
Before we kind of get into the studies and look at the research for PEMF and even some of the practical applications, what actually affects sleep, and why can it actually become disturbed in the first place?
Andy Smith 03:48
Yeah. We can look at this in a number of different ways, really. Uh, sleep is mainly controlled by two things. So that's our need for sleep, which increases the longer we're awake, and our internal body clock, which some people refer to as the circadian rhythm, uh, which can help us tell when to feel alert or sleepy. But being tired doesn't always mean you can fall asleep. You've got things like stress, worry, caffeine, and irregular routines that can help keep you s- with- well, sorry, not help, but can keep you switched on, making it harder to fall asleep or stay asleep. When those difficulties persist despite having the opportunity to sleep, it can affect how you feel during the day, and this is where conditions like insomnia come in. This is one reason researchers are looking into and exploring the avenues for PEMF therapy and how that can improve on sleep and help people relax when they struggle to switch off at night.
Joshua Roberts 04:38
And we'll get into some of that research now. Has there been any research directly looking at applying PEMF with people with insomnia?
Andy Smith 04:45
Yeah. So I've got a study up here in front of me, and actually it was a double-blind, placebo-controlled study published in 2001, and it enrolled 101 people and ran for four weeks. 50 of those people were assigned active treatment, and 51 were assigned a placebo treatment. The researchers assessed problems including taking too long to fall asleep, interrupted sleep, and nightmares alongside symptoms during the day. Both groups improved, but improvements were significantly greater in the active group. So they got around a 70% of people receiving the active treatment reported a substantial or complete relief in their sleep complaints, while only 2% of the placebo group reported very clear relief.
Joshua Roberts 05:31
Yeah. And as you say, that's quite an old study now. That one's almost 25 years old, um, or probably just over 25 years old or around that. Um, so is there any kind of more recent, uh, controlled trials that they've done with PEMF?
Andy Smith 05:43
Yeah. So a multicenter trial, which is basically a study carried out across several centers such as, like, hospitals or research centers, they published this one in 2023, and they randomly assigned 153 adults with insomnia to a pulsed magnetic therapy system or a sham device for four weeks. 76 received active treatment, and 77 received sham treatment. The main measure was on the Insomnia Severity Index, a questionnaire assessing the severity and impact of insomnia. By week four, around 70% of the active group met the study's response threshold compared to around 35% of the sham group. That threshold meant their questionnaire score had fallen to a level the researchers classified as no clinically ins- uh, significant insomnia, like, left in that patient. Sleep questionnaires and diaries also favored active treatment, including measures of falling asleep and wakefulness after the sleep had begun.
Joshua Roberts 06:42
And that's another great study, and these studies will all be linked below this episode. Um, but both those studies were kind of both looking at kind of just people's responses, um, rather than maybe kind of the biological response. Has there been any studies looking at PEMF and they're looking at their brainwave activity when it comes to sleep?
Andy Smith 07:01
Yeah, that's a really important aspect when it comes to PEMF and sleep. So we found this one double-blind study involving 25 healthy men who received a two hertz pulsed magnetic field or other comparison exposures for 30 minutes before bed. Researchers then recorded their brain activity while they slept. They found changes in some brainwaves activity, including the slower delta and theta bands. However, they didn't find a change in the overall pattern of sleep stages. So this shows that pulsed electromagnetic fields can influence brain activity during sleep, but changing brainwaves doesn't necessarily mean that someone spends more time in deep sleep.
Joshua Roberts 07:39
Yeah, and that's probably another misconception with PEMF, um, and sleep, so another myth we kind of busted on this podcast. But now we've looked at brainwave ta- a- activity, what about the nervous system? Um, is there any kind of research looking at how PEMF can affect the nervous system for sleep?
Andy Smith 07:55
Yes, the nervous system is another really important factor when we're talking about PEMF therapy and sleep, and we found another study that was published in 2025, so that was quite a recent one, and that explored PEMF when it was applied around the neck in 485 vol- volunteers. So this is quite a big scale, uh, study. And that used double-blind, placebo-controlled design, so it was quite a big study and also double-blind placebo. It tested three frequencies, six, 16 and 32 hertz within the participants, and they were instructed to use the device for 30 minutes each afternoon during a quiet relaxation period, and repeated this for 30 days.
Joshua Roberts 08:35
And what did they find out in the study?
Andy Smith 08:37
Yeah, so this study was really interesting. It was a good one because they're actually applying different frequencies and seeing what ones work at that po- particular time of the day. So the researchers reported improvements in sleep quality and ins- in the anxiety questionnaires with the strongest reported results at 16 hertz, which is interesting. They proposed an e- explanation involving the vagus nerve and the autonomic nervous system, which helps regulate functions such as heart rate and digestion. This raises a possibility that PEMF could support sleep and helping regulate the systems involved in stress and relaxation, although the questionnaires didn't directly measure those changes. Interestingly though, these sessions took place in the afternoon rather than immediately before bed. That suggests a daytime PEMF session may h- also have a role in supporting sleep later on, potentially by helping people feel calmer and more settled. And it's what we talk about a lot on this podcast, is using the right frequency at the right time of day rather than being specific on the, on the actual, um, condition you're trying to, trying to treat. So this is quite interesting that they said afternoon because this could be middle of the day, and actually 16 hertz would be a good one to apply at that time of day to help protect the circadian rhythm and actually later in the afternoon. So if this was directly before bed, I would pretty much guarantee that the six hertz session would have got much better result in this study.
Joshua Roberts 10:00
Yeah. And exactly, that's something that we talk about quite a lot in this podcast and you shouldn't really match frequencies necessarily with conditions. It's all about getting the, the right frequency for the right time of day. Um, so before we kind of go into looking at how you can practically apply a PEMF for sleep, like applications, settings, everything like that, there's one area that we haven't really touched on yet, um, and that is people that might be dealing with kind of pain or discomfort, um, and that is leading them then not to sleep, which is probably a big reason why some people aren't sleeping. Has there been any research to show that PEMF can kind of help with this discomfort, maybe by reducing inflammation?
Andy Smith 10:39
Yeah, definitely. When we're talking about, you know, physical discomfort, it might be another possible route, especially when it's like discomfort rather than actually just a busy mind that's keeping you awake. So if you're repeatedly changing position because something hurts, improving comfort could make it easier to settle and stay asleep. So the studies we've looked at and s- and some of the new studies that we haven't listed, uh, they're suggesting that PEMF can influence adenosine receptors and pathways such as NF-kappa B, which help regulate the body's inflammatory response. That may have a knock-on effect and help reduce discomfort. It could also make it easier to settle and stay asleep. So I know personally myself, you know, luckily I don't have pain from things like arthritis but actually, um, you know, giving this a real world scenario, I did, um, some Hirox training the other day and lots of bent over rows and my arms were absolutely in agony for a few days and using the PEMF not only relaxed the muscles, but it also dampened the pain before I went to sleep. So it's just kind of explaining how this can work in, in a real life scenario.
Joshua Roberts 11:45
Yeah. And if you're listening to this and you want to kind of go into the research on how PEMF can affect inflammation or pain, we have two pages on the website about this. Um, I'll link them down below. But we've also got loads of other ways PEMF can be used, um, and just loads of other conditions as well it's been researched for, um, so another reason to go check out the website. But as I say, before we go, once again, before we go into looking at the application and all that side of things, um, I think it's important to touch on maybe some of your own experience. For anyone who hasn't listened to episode 100 and is just joining us, uh, Andy's been selling PEMF for coming up to 15 years now, not too far off. Um, and you've obviously had a lot of people use it for sleep. So what are kind of some of the- ... anecdotal responses that you kind of got for people using it for sleep, and how quick does it kinda take them to notice?
Andy Smith 12:31
Yeah. So really this is why we're doing a specific episode on sleep and why this is actually our second episode on sleep, because sleep just tends to be one of the most important factors when it comes to PEMF in terms of a number of different things. So give an example, you know, if you get a decent night's sleep, that's gonna lead to a number of different things e- even if it's just down to helping the body to heal, as we always mention when it comes to PEMF therapy. But it's usually the first thing that customers come back to us with. So and that doesn't necessarily mean because they bought PEMF for sleep. So it just, uh, tends to be a bit of a by-product. So give an example, somebody will come to us and buy a full body PEMF system, and they wanna use it for, um, you know, some pain that they're dealing with, arthritis, uh, you know, rheumatoid arthritis, something like that. And they say to me, "You know, how long is it gonna tak- take for the, for the arthritis, for the pain to reduce or for something to happen?" And a lot of the time we say to them, you know, "Chronic conditions, it's gonna take a long time. It's gotta use consistency." But after one session of PEMF therapy, sleep is, you know, I can almost guarantee it's improved. Um, so it's the first thing we s- we speak to our customers when we do a follow-up with them and say to them, you know, "How are you? How are you sleeping? How have you slept after that one session? Take a sleep score. Look at your Oura Ring. Look at your WHOOP band, and look at your sl- sleep score for that night." So it's not always the reason that people come to us to buy PEMF therapy devices, but it's always the first thing that people notice. And actually an area that people, well, my friends usually say to me that, um, you know, I'm a PEMF dealer because what happens is I'll lend them a PEMF system to use, and they actually then when they give it back to me, they say to me that they can't sleep without it. So it's, you know, it's really an area where PEMF influences such a lot. And the same thing if we ever get returns. A lot of the time people get return, they return a system because maybe they're not getting response in the pain as quickly as they wanted to, and you know, they call us a week later and they say, "Actually, my sleep has decreased since I've sent it back to you." So it's usually a reason where people actually re- recall the device. So yeah, sleep is a really bang, big aspect for PEMF therapy, and it's actually something that we're looking to do some in-house studies for, which we have already done, but we're taking it to the next level and actually looking at doing our own clinical trials with the CelLurate device. So watch this space. Something that we was actually discussing or I was actually on a phone call this morning talking about somebody for. So yeah, definitely a big area when it comes to PEMF and sleep.
Joshua Roberts 15:12
Yeah, exactly. And even people that are kinda coming through the podcast website and ask us for recommendations on devices, um, they've may be using a device for pain, for example, and then the first thing they text back the next day after they use it, they go, "Actually, I slept really well as well." And it's, um, like you say, it's one of the big things that people seem to notice as soon as they start using the PEMF as well. Um, but yeah. So let's make this practical now. We'll finally get into the kinda application side of it. If someone's looking to kind of apply a PEMF for sleep, how would they go about doing this?
Andy Smith 15:43
Okay, so there's loads of ways we can look at this, and I don't want to try and overcomplicate it, um, because essentially applying PEMF at any frequency, any intensity, any duration, you're gonna get benefits with sleep. However, there is ways in which we can tweak it and make it even better, and we look at this from, uh, an intensity, a frequency, duration, and an application standpoint. So let me try and summarize this quickly, and then we can kind of like break this down a little bit more, uh, later on in this episode. So really when we look at... So let, let's try and apply a device in the evening compared to the later in the, in the day. So we're gonna apply a device in the evening. We always mention this podcast about protecting the circadian rhythm, so using the right frequency at the right time of day. And again, that's just gonna get us our maximum benefits when it comes to sleep. So if you think of a range, typically PEMF devices are one to 30 hertz. So you know, you can get devices that got higher frequencies, but if we look at the range throughout the day, you wanna be using like a 30 hertz and plus in the morning first thing. Afternoon and into the evening, we wanna be using anything in the alpha, um, those sorts or, or even in gam- uh, well, gamma would be earlier on. So something like an alpha range, which is like from eight hertz to 14, 16, that sort of range. So you wanna be winding it down throughout the day though, and then when we look at the evening, we really wanna be in those delta and theta ranges, so anything from one to eight hertz. And those frequencies are gonna get you your maximum benefit when it comes to sleep, protecting the circadian rhythm. But then if we look at the actual application in terms of how do we apply this, uh, you know, do I need a full body mat? Do I need a localized applicator? Again, there's different ways to do this, and, uh, you always get benefits for sleep again. So let's look at a full body application. So full body application, you could be sitting in the TV. Uh, sitting in the TV? Sitting on the sofa watching TV using a full body mat, and you can be doing that in the evening, and you can get a 20-minute session on, on the, you know, in the theta range. And although we're not in bed, 'cause a lot of people think, "Right, well, sleep, bed, you know, that is where I need to apply it." No, actually doing a session in the evening later on is still gonna give you really good benefits in sleep, and that even comes from using a PEMF device in a clinic during the day. Again, one of the factors people talk about is how did you sleep that night, even if you've got a session like in the morning or, or after lunch. So as I say, I'm trying not to overcomplicate this, but there's different ways to look at it. So you've got your full body mat. You can apply a full body system- And thereafter you get into bed and you're still gonna get benefits. However, an easier way to apply it is to just use a localized device around or near the pillow, so near your head, should I say, and that's gonna work on retraining the brain state. So like we mentioned the study earlier, if we're using the delta range or theta range, then actually that's gonna help switch the mind off and actually bring you into one of those states and help with delta, help with, like, the delta brain waves. And we can apply that for a longer duration of time. So to give you a bit of an example, Cellarate night mode is set up for two hours in the, in the e- in the night session, and the designed application for that is actually to use the controller to one side of the pillow or on the bedside table. So you don't necessarily have to lay or sleep on the mat, which a lot of people think or as- assume you'd have to do. The only time really where I say to somebody to sleep on a PEMF mat is actually if you don't have time to use it during the day and you wanna get full body application benefits. So really if we're using PEMF therapy to benefit ourselves for sleep, then you don't have to initially think you're gonna sleep on a mat. You can just use a localized device around the head to train the brain. And just using the PEMF mat on a full body session in the evening on the right frequencies is gonna give you that benefit later on when you get into bed. So yeah, so a lot to digest there, but actually try and keep it as simple as you can. And as I say, even if you apply a device at PEMF settings in the wrong frequencies, on the wrong intensities, 9 times out of 10 you're gonna get benefits anyway. The only one I would say to try and avoid is using a super high frequency late, late in the evening. So the only thing with super high, um, did I say frequency? I meant intensity. Super high intensity PEMF device later in the evening. Reason for that is there's so much energy when it comes to a high intensity device, and sometimes that can give you too much of an energy boost and actually affect sleep the other way. So if you're gonna use a super high intensity device, try and do that in the morning or throughout the day. Try not to do that before bed. Low intensity devices really can use those on majority of settings and still benefit your sleep. So hopefully that all made sense.
Joshua Roberts 20:56
Yeah, there's a lot to digest in there, so let's kind of do our normal structure. We'll kind of go through intensity, frequency, application, all that kind of thing, uh, and we'll try and quickfire them a little bit. Um, and yeah, just make it a little bit more bite-sized. So how would someone kind of then apply a PEMF for, for their sleep?
Andy Smith 21:13
People think if they're using a PEMF device for sleep, they have to sleep on the product, and then we got all these problems with they're not comfortable, you know, people get too warm because they're wrapping themselves up in a, and all that sort of thing. So yeah, you don't actually have to sleep on a device. Really if you're just using it for sleep, we actually encourage people to look at more of the brain state activity more than anything. So targeting the head, running the lower frequencies tends to be better than actually trying to sleep on a PEMF device.
Joshua Roberts 21:40
Okay, and then if we're using this localized applicator, do we need to run it all night? Are we using the device, yeah, for the whole night?
Andy Smith 21:47
So yeah, and that's actually where a lot of people go wrong. Really I wouldn't suggest running a delta frequency all night 'cause actually you run the risk of running of, of kind of waking up a little bit sluggish. So you actually wanna naturally move from a low frequency like delta into a higher frequency before you're waking up, and you can see that on your activity trackers. A lot of the time you're never gonna get deep sleep in the, in the hour or two before you wake up. So, you know, you wanna give that natural ability to wake up nat- um, on a, on a higher frequency.
Joshua Roberts 22:18
Let's maybe bust a myth or a misconception here now as well. Um, say someone's using a localized applicator or if they say they're s- they're gonna use a mat, they might only have a mat system or they just find the mat comfortable, um, does the distance away matter?
Andy Smith 22:33
Yeah, so when we're talking about PEMF therapy, the distance and the intensity does actually really matter when it comes to sleep because we tend to see people buying a PEMF mat, and they think, "You know, I'm not gonna sleep on it 'cause it's uncomfortable," so they put it under the bed. Um, really y- when we're talking about magnetic fields, actually the intensity drops off every, uh, by about half every one centimeter, so the further we're moving away from those mats and those coils and those applicators, we're losing a lot of the intensity. So that's why we kind of recommend more of the smaller applicators that have higher intensity with them. We've measured, for example, the Cellarate, uh, smaller applicator to have about a two meter field range. So you could actually effectively put that in between two people and get, um, a session between the two people and, but we recommend really moving that closer to the head. But when we're talking about the field range and the intensity, really anything from one to about 100 gauss is, is kind of that recommended range. We're not talking about the clinical application of PEMF therapy here in the, you know, 20s, 30,000s gauss. That's what I mentioned before, where we don't really recommend doing those ones before bed. So you're looking at that kind of field range intensity, putting it closer to the head in an applicator rather than the mat. Um, we've had customers say to us that they've attached it to the headboard or actually put it on one side under their pillow or even on a bedside table just for comfort.
Joshua Roberts 24:04
And frequency, we've kind of covered it quite a lot in this episode really already, but what kind of frequencies would people use?
Andy Smith 24:10
Yes, we kind of covered this earlier in my answer, so I won't go too deep into this, but really when we're talking about sleep, you wanna be using the delta frequency, so one to four. So if you're actually in bed applying a PEMF device, that's your range you wanna be applying. If you're using a PEMF device in the evening and it's before bed, you wanna be looking in the range of five to maybe 12 hertz. That's a nice one that's gonna really kind of calm the body down, relax. Theta range good for meditation, switching the body down. And those are your sort of ranges that you want to really apply. As we mentioned multiple times in this episode, kind of don't get tri- too lost in frequencies. Just try and use higher frequency in the morning, lower frequencies in the night, and that should really protect the circadian rhythm and help as most as possible as it can for sleep.
Joshua Roberts 24:57
Yeah, exactly. And what about intensity as well? I know we've covered it kind of a lot in this last little section, but quickly, what intensity would they maybe wanna use or even avoid when it comes to sleep?
Andy Smith 25:07
Yeah, so as I say, we tend to favor low to medium intensity devices when we're talking about sleep spec- specifically. Um, when you look at the clinical devices, the high intensity, really high intensity ones, um, they just tend to be a bit overstimulating when you're going to sleep. So great throughout the day, but, and they will get benefits for sleep in the evening, but we don't tend to recommend those ones before sleep. As I say, try not to overcomplicate this. You know, it's... PEMF therapy will really help with sleep i- in, in any kind of frequency intensity. But if you wanna really tweak it and get it down to a point, that's really what you wanna be focusing on.
Joshua Roberts 25:41
Yeah, exactly. Amazing. And I hope everyone found this inf- episode informational and useful. As I say, down below, we'll reference all of the studies that we talk about in this episode. We'll also reference the pages to the podcast website, where we talk about sleep, inflammation, pain, uh, and any oth- other things that we kind of mentioned throughout this episode. Uh, but as I said right at the start, if you haven't already, please do make sure to subscribe, follow us on whatever streaming platform you're on, give us a five-star review. Just really helps us make more and more of these episode and get bigger and better guests on to bring you in the future. And if you haven't already, please do sign up to our mailing list. As I say, every week, we give out new updates on episodes for going out on the podcast. Uh, PEMF news. There's been quite a lot of interesting PEMF news recently, which our current email subscribers would have seen. Um, and we kind of give little updates on maybe stuff that's gone on the podcast behind the scenes. Uh, all really useful information if you're generally interested in PEMF or the podcast. But please do like, subscribe, follow us, everything like that. But I hope you have enjoyed today's episode.
Andy Smith 26:42
Thanks for listening to today's episode of the PEMF Podcast.
